JUST EVERYDAY GUYS
Welcome to JUST EVERYDAY GUYS, where host Rob Atkins invites you to join him and his friends as they explore the journey of what it means to be a man in today’s world. Each episode offers heartfelt discussions filled with encouragement, challenges, and spiritual insights. From personal growth and relationships to the struggles and triumphs of everyday life, we delve into the real experiences that shape us. Tune in for authentic conversations that inspire and empower you to embrace your journey with courage and faith!
JUST EVERYDAY GUYS
S1E08 Side by Side: Conversations in Fatherhood
Join host Rob and his friends Jez, Andrew, and Josh as they dive into the rewarding yet challenging world of fatherhood. In this episode, they share personal stories, laugh about the ups and downs, and offer insights on walking alongside one another in this incredible journey. Whether you're a seasoned dad or just starting out, you'll find relatable moments and heartfelt conversations that highlight the importance of friendship, support, and growth in fatherhood. Tune in for an inspiring chat that brings everyday guys together on this meaningful path!
Music By - Roger Jaeger "What Makes a Man"
Hi, I'm Rob Atkins, and this is Just Everyday Guys. Each episode, me and my friends are going to talk about what makes a man, which could take a while. Family, sports, marriage, kids, friendships, God, and everything in between. The things we struggle with and what we've overcome. So come along for the ride, and let's jump into today's conversation. Hello, everybody. Welcome back into the podcast here out on the farm. I am so excited about the three guys sitting around. Well, at least two of the guys. I'm excited that they're here, but there's three here. So returning for another episode is one of my best buds, Jez Williams. Hey,
SPEAKER_01:guys. I got a quick shout-out to Jason Wentz. He beat me here last time. He did. I know. Yeah, I'm on now, man. Yeah, you're back. Yeah, I'm back. I'm glad you're here. Yeah, I'm back.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm glad you're here. As some of you know the format, sitting around the breakfast table, and, man, you know, we just start talking this thing. You know, I'm crying. Go figure. And just talking about life. Yeah, man. No, yes. And what's going on in our, who we are as men, who we are as husbands. But today's episode, I just really feel is going to have a great value wherever you're at in your journey. Different perspective. That's why I love what happens at these, as we sit around the table is as men to share their perspective of where they are in their journey. And again, I've said this so many times, but the power of our story, what we get to share is, Uh, not only changes our lives, but you as a listener, uh, I know we'll be encouraged and lifted up. We're going to start today, kind of go around. He's already said hello, but jump back in, tell him about who you are in case in just in case somebody is listening for the first time, who you are short version about, you know, I'll tell you if you talk too long,
SPEAKER_01:but He's not talking about Jez here. Hi, how are you guys? I'm Jez Burks. I'm the token British guy that comes on the podcast to help rub out every now and then. He makes us international, yeah. No, I'm a Brit. I live in America. I'm married, got two kids, and live in Tennessee now. But we've lived in quite a few countries and come from... Most of my family's in England, most of my wife's family's up north in the States. And yeah, we just, we love it here and we just pour out wherever we go. Yeah. What's been up kind of in your world? What's been going on in particular? Yeah, we have started our own business. So the last 12 months has been a bit of a whirlwind for us where we now have a couple of different businesses we do in consulting and also development. and started our own real estate investment firm recently. So, yeah, we're seeing that slowly take off. Awesome. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's great. It's your accent. Yeah. I would buy anything from you if you just said hello. I don't know. I won't trust it. Yeah, he's already conned into it. I'm bought in. Well, awesome. So, Josh, why don't you introduce yourself, a little bit about you, your family, and blah, blah, blah, all that kind of good stuff so
SPEAKER_01:people know who you are. Yeah, my name is Josh, and... My wife and I got a beautiful wife, two kids. Beautiful kids. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. They're amazing. Yes. Such a blessing. Yeah, my wife and I are kind of cross-cultural workers in Central Asia, and we've been there for about three years now. Three
SPEAKER_02:years? Yeah, it goes by fast. No wonder your son... Got so tall. That freaked me out, Sunday. When I saw him, I went, oh my goodness, look how tall
SPEAKER_01:he is. He's definitely going to be taller than you. He definitely will be. And he's ready for that moment already. Yeah, so it's been three years, which is crazy how time flies. And we're just blessed to be here in Tennessee and in Franklin and just being able to get refreshed and get some piece of America for us. It's been... It's been good to be here for a little over a month and yeah, just trying to take care of a few things back here in the States and then getting ready to head back soon.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I'm glad it worked out that before you go back, you could be on the episode and be part of
SPEAKER_01:this. It's an honor. Well, hey, I've been listening to it while we've been in Central Asia, so it's been cool just to be able to catch up with some of the guys and hear from you all. So it's
SPEAKER_02:been
SPEAKER_01:good.
SPEAKER_02:Awesome. Well, I'm glad you're here. Well, you can't see him, but imagine. So Josh is right. Andrew. Andrew is... It's probably the first time I've had somebody on the don't know as well. We have eaten together now, so we can mark that check. We probably need to watch some sports together. We'll get there. That definitely has to happen. But our connection is through church and his wife. But share a little bit about who you are. And again, thanks for being here and wanting to be a part.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Thanks for inviting me. My name is Andrew Richardson. I'm originally from the West Coast. Oregon, moved out to Tennessee with my family. my wife and well at that time we had six that's not true at that time we had five and then we had another one as soon as we got here and then we just had baby number seven yeah so live here now operate a business here now and yeah That's, that's pretty much it. And your wife, what she does. So my wife is the children's pastor at our church. Um, just have a, um, a heart for men, um, for me, but for her, for kids, uh, and like family ministry. So there's some, there's some lines there together that we have that I'm sure we'll, we'll go there together.
SPEAKER_02:She is a fireball.
SPEAKER_00:She is. She's amazing.
SPEAKER_02:She is something else. I mean, the first time Robin and I, that's my wife, um, heard her speak or met her. It was like, that is a lady that not only gets stuff done, but it's just... You know, when you meet somebody like your wife, it's just like there's just such a life about her. Well, all three of you guys. I mean, all four of us, really. Our wives are incredible, right? All of our wives are incredible, correct? Yeah, for sure. Jump in. Why are you looking at me? I wanted you to give you a part. I don't want you to be left out there or whatever. This is a slow pitch softball. Are you just listening
SPEAKER_01:to me? Yeah, man. It is not me doing this. I
SPEAKER_02:was seeing you up there and then I went out. But, yeah, it's... I think some of you guys know this. My wife and I also do a marriage podcast called Marriage and Us. But knowing these three guys and what I was saying about their wives, it's, man, I just, and I'll speak for all four of us, I love being married. It's just, oh, my gosh. It's just the best. It really is. To have a partner, somebody to go through life with, someone who knows you, you know, Literally, intimately. It's just to have that. And then, obviously, some of you who listen to the podcast know when God is the center of your relationship, I've said it countless times, I know it can be done. Don't get me wrong, because I know couples that don't go to church or don't necessarily profess to be Christians that have great marriages. Don't get me wrong. But knowing I have something to tap into... knowing that Holy Spirit is there and I can have those moments. We tell couples all the time, it's hard to stay mad if you pause and ask Holy Spirit, hey, what do you want to do about this situation? But being married is the best. So, yeah, perfect. I'm trying to, you know, let's stay on the marriage theme just for a second. Andrew, I think you highlighted this one, so we'll start with you on this. Okay. How have– when we're talking about emotions, in your marriage and your role as a man, what have you learned– let's just keep it narrow. Over the last two or three years, what have you learned about yourself as a man when it comes to relating to your wife and to your family? What's some of that spiritual journey been like over the last couple years? Sure.
SPEAKER_00:Well, probably the most– One of the greatest wins of moving out here away from everything I've ever known was the fact that it was just me and my wife for the first time. No family, no friends, no nothing. Starting over. And I'm sure there's a lot of people that are probably actively in that right now. And that was very difficult for me. because of what I left and that's a longer story. Um, but I, I'd never been away from, uh, permanently in that sense, my family, um, and my dad specifically.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Try not to get emotional.
SPEAKER_02:No, let's go. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But, uh, but that was really difficult. And I was always, my dad's my hero and I was always wanting to be like him and just, I mean, he raised me. Right. So, um, So what does that
SPEAKER_02:mean when you say, I want to pause there? So you were just raised by your dad? No, no, no, no. I have an amazing mother,
SPEAKER_00:too. Both mom and dad are amazing. I'm just, you know, I'm my father's son. Got it, got it. But he doesn't, didn't really display emotion much. I've seen him cry a handful of times in my entire life, and one of those is when I left. Oh, wow. You know, and so coming out here, I didn't realize until I came out here that it was like, I don't tell my wife anything. the way I really feel very often because I'm so used to carrying everything, right? And not allowing myself to tell her, hey, I feel this way. Vulnerability, right? And instead of just carrying it. So one of the things that really, really changed in the last few years is my ability to do that with my wife and brought us so much closer together because I'd be vulnerable with my wife. But when it comes to things that made me feel weak, I wouldn't.
SPEAKER_02:So let me ask you, let's stay on that. So when you say that, what was and what is your, when you think about the, when you say that word weak as men, that's a big word for most of us. Understanding the emotional connection is what I hear you saying that you have now with her. I mean, what kind of brought that to light? Was it just the move? Was it a series of things? What was that?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, it was the hardest year of my life. The first year we moved here. Bye. A mile.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:There was so many things that happened that I see now looking back, God had to take a lot of things from me.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:To replace them with what I needed. Okay. For the season I'm walking into now.
SPEAKER_01:Come on,
SPEAKER_00:man. Yeah. So what was the question? No, you're right on track. It's just,
SPEAKER_02:you know, as men, I think what I hear you saying is, and I want to ask this question the right way, and if I don't... Feel free to jump in and stop me, you know, because obviously our parents love us the best they know how. And here you're saying, you know, your dad is your hero. But then for you to be willing to look at yourself and say, you know, there's areas of my life where I'm not emotionally available for my wife.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so, you know, that's that's that journey that I hear that you said you've really been on. And sometimes that stripping away of something.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:helps reveal something that we actually needed, maybe didn't even realize we needed. So yeah. So stay on that emotional. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, there was, it just, everybody has a certain point at which you can't not communicate. And I think I just never got to that point until we moved here. And it was a big enough thing in my life and the finality of it moving here, God bringing us here. Right. Undeniably that, that, I just, I could not continue on without being honest with how I felt. Not saying that like how I felt was changing how, you know, what we were doing in that moment, you know, but how I felt had to be communicated so I wasn't alone there, right? Because you have a tendency with your spouse to want to, and not everybody is this way, but even just like, as an example, like financially, I run everything financially for our family. Right. So if there's ever like tighter months, I don't tell my wife, you know, I, you know, and if, if I need to, I tell her, Hey, we might want to pull back on, you know, the coffee breaks or something like that. But I don't want her to carry that. Right. And, um, I think that just bleeds into so much for me in my life that I had to not allow weakness from myself or what I, what I perceive as weakness, um, to, um, to affect her. And that was the image of my dad and his story, which is wild. But that whole piece of identity that I took from him was that I'm going to protect my family from everything, even from my own emotion. I'll carry that. And that'll be between me and the Lord, which is where it should be, but it also needs to be with her. Yeah. That, that was probably the most to your question. That's circling in time. No, you're good. No, I love it. And the last few years that's really changed and just, you know, there's a strength there that can't exist anywhere else. Yeah, absolutely. When your wife are locked in.
SPEAKER_02:Robin says all the time to have a great marriage, you've got to ask great questions. And a big word that, uh, we use a lot is obviously the word curiosity. I, you know, we celebrate in a few days, uh, 35 years of marriage, Robert and I did. Congrats, man. Thanks, man. And the word curiosity has become so alive in us because I never want, one, I couldn't, what I'm about to say, ever figure her out. But I don't want to either, you know. So I don't want to ask you guys the same kind of in the same vein, but I think as men— again, going back to what I was saying with your dad, and whatever our stories are, if you're listening, whatever your story, your relationship with your parents is, we know as we mature and we get older, we're able to look back and say, good or bad, they did the best they knew how. But when you come to the realization that you have to be, to walk through this thing with partnership with our wives, you have to be emotionally connected, and that that does not, we've talked about this multiple times, again, the word, and Josh, you brought it up at the bracket, say vulnerability for most of us as men, we saw always so as a weak word. But vulnerability is, I think I'm stronger. And when you realize, Andrew, from what you just said, you'll testify to this, that our wives actually see us stronger when we're vulnerable with them. But we're not taught that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And then it all comes down to what do we perceive as weakness, right? Like all of us are going to have different upbringings, just like Andrew was saying about, how he was brought up and how his dad was. My dad and me, he was very different. And there were things that... were taught to me, which is fine. They did great. They raised me really well. I wouldn't be where I'm at today without my parents. But at the same point, there are gaps. And in those gaps, where if you don't know how to navigate through, that's where we can hear the lies of a weakness coming in, where we're like, no, I have to be strong for my family, or I have to provide for my family. But actually, then it takes us away from what actually the identity is in God. Right? And I mean, I love hearing when Andrew talks about how he's come through and where he's come from and things like that. And it's amazing how it brings up in me because I always want to look at, okay, God, what's happened in my life as well with that? How have you brought me through? What things have you walked me through? And where are there still weaknesses in my life that actually should be strengths?
SPEAKER_02:So where are
SPEAKER_01:you in that journey? I'm still walking that every day.
SPEAKER_02:Sure. But I mean, like over the last couple of years, you know, we'll kind of narrow it down. What have you seen? that in your own personal walk, you know, with all your wife, how have you felt like that emotionally you've grown deeper?
SPEAKER_01:I'll give an example. I mean, it's not going to be like a profound, deep, lifelong lesson thing, but like in the last 12 months, for example, we walked away from the stability of work, okay? Had a full-time job, doing very well, was an executive VP at a big national firm. I know we talked about this last time a few weeks back, but in that, actually, it had nothing to do with money. It had nothing to do with the job, right? It had everything to do with God saying, hey, I want you to come back and center on me. But in that moment, my brain, because for 22 years I've worked, was going... How are we going to pay our bills? How are we going to survive? How am I going to supply for my family? And they're the questions that were coming up over and over again. And actually, I had to go back and go, wait a minute. Where is my identity? Where is my strength? Where are my weaknesses in this? Yep. Do I trust that God can take care of me and my family first and foremost so that I can focus there on repairing my my mindset of just going after work, business, money, and success. And it's amazing how that creeped in without me realizing until I was pulled out of it. And it's been a 12-month process of, hey, over and over again, just resetting that. Okay, where am I trusting? Who am I trusting? Who am I? Do I believe that I can do things? And it's stretching me to new levels. But if I kept all of that internally and didn't communicate that with my wife too, I wouldn't be here today. I would have broken down. I wouldn't have had the support because she is my biggest supporter and I'm her biggest supporter. And I want to continue to grow in that. But again, it's the challenge of, are we, are we still growing in that? Because it is the curiosity. Are we still keeping that alive to keep growing together? Or have you hit a point of just, we've just got into routine. And that's another area that like, yeah, we, we have, hit a routine in our household because I've got two boys. They're both in sports. You know, you went to work Monday through Friday and all the rest of your time is filled up doing all these other activities, church and then sports. And it's like, okay, where are you making the time? Where's my weakness now coming in of just falling into a regime instead of seeing the curiosity of the moments too? Wow. That's the key, man. So I've just done like five things on you, so have fun with that. No, no, that's good. No,
SPEAKER_02:that's good. Josh, what about you? You know, over the last... You know, obviously big changes geographically for you, you know, leaving, you know, the U.S. and being abroad. What does that emotionally look like, that journey for you guys as a couple, as a father? What's that? Kind of hit on that a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so touch on both of what you guys were saying. Yeah. I grew up in it with my amazing dad, you know, I love him to death. Um, some of my fondest memories growing up were just sitting in the truck with my dad and having conversations after we played baseball or something, you know, just, I would always, we'd have, you know, I would always choose to go in my dad's truck, a two seater truck, you know, just to have conversation with my dad and the rest of my family's in my, my mom's car. You know, I was, I would fight for that time. Um, growing up with three other siblings, but, um, One of the things my dad instilled in me is just hard work. My dad's such a hard worker, and he provided for our family. And so that was one of the things that, you know, being a dad and being a husband, I always thought, you know, I need to provide for my family. I need to work hard. And I did, you know. And these past three years, by living abroad, my wife kind of became the— financial like provider for our family and I've been helping take care of their kids going back to school or living abroad and that was the first year living abroad was pretty challenging for me just identity wise because like you know I mean in this world it's never like a stay at home dad, you know, like, um, and, uh, my wife would work. She worked really hard. I've been fortunate to be able to spend so much time with my family these past three years. Whereas when we were in the States, I was working like sometimes 60 hours a week, you know, and just barely seeing my son. Yeah. So I've been, I've been blessed to be able to spend the last three years, um, spending quality time with my kids and my wife and family time. But just that, um, The identity piece of not being the provider, being a stay-at-home dad was just something I had to wrestle with, like, is this okay? You know, I've never thought of, you know, even kind of wrestle with, like, some people think, like, this is not, like, what God intended for me. a marriage or a Christian man should be the one providing for the family, the one, you know, the head of the household. And I was like... Whoever they are. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I'm not sure who they are, but...
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Which, I mean, in many cases may be a good way of doing things, you know, in biblical and whatnot. But, like, this was just the season that we were in. Yeah. And I'm thankful for it because before, like I said, I just... didn't get to spend that much quality time with his family, which has been huge.
SPEAKER_02:Emotionally-wise, with the journey the last three years, what has that revealed? Because you heard Jess talk about that identity. For us as men, that's a big thing. What have you walked through individually with that, and how have you been able to connect with her when you're having those moments of, like, hey, this is new to me, this is... Yeah. You know, you're, you're away and I'm home. I mean, what, what conversations have you guys had when it comes to, you know, those situations?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at first it was great for my wife because like, I'm a chef. And so my wife would come home and dinner's ready, you know? Uh, so, you know, I feel a lot of pressure. So at first things were going great, but then like you were saying, like the emotional part of like, um, my mom doesn't show much emotion. Uh, and my dad had some strong emotions. And so for me, I was, I grew up kind of being afraid to show emotion just out of fear. And then the, the other example is my mom not showing much emotion. So like I've had to wrestle with, like, I've always protected myself from showing emotion kind of just, it wasn't even my dad. Like he never hit me or he was never like violent or, but, I think in myself, I just felt afraid to show emotion just with my dad. Uh, I had a few conversations with him, not a lot, but, and then my mom being the example of like not showing a lot, I just kind of had this, you know, we've been, my wife and I had, if I'd been on this journey and still on this journey of like trying to get me to open up more, you know, just to, you know, my wife's always trying to get more out of me just to just sharing. And that's, you know, it's something I'm still working on, you know? Um, but going through this, um, Identity season has been challenging, trying to find myself in that season. And I think what it comes down to for me is that knowing that God is the one that's providing. Even if I was working 60 hours a week, it's still God providing. And so even if I'm working no hours a week, it's still God providing. And realizing that it's not about me. working my butt off to provide for my family. It's about me connecting with my father, my heavenly father and allowing him to show me that like, Hey Josh, like you can do everything out of your own strength. But at the end of the day, like remember that promotion that you got? Like that was me. You know what I mean? Like, so just trying to like tune into like, Oh, like this is just the season that I, that I was in and being okay with, um, It's okay being a stay-at-home dad. It's actually a blessing, you know, and maybe this isn't long-term, but I'm going to look back, you know, 10 years from now, like those three years are like great times. Right there, that's it. That's gold. I was waiting to come back to be like, there's two ways you can see it, right? You can see it as, oh, this goes, like I feel weak, I feel worthless, I feel all of these things, right? But actually, are you looking at it and going, oh my gosh. the blessing of me being able to spend this time in this moment with my kids, maybe it's one year, maybe it's one month, maybe it's three years. That's worth my paycheck. A hundred percent, man, because you're going to look back and go, I did something. The majority of people probably never have the opportunity to do in their lifetime. Yeah. And you're able to pour into those kids and actually even speak into their identity as their father differently than not, not in a bad way, but differently than how our parents spoke into our lives. Because I truly believe that our parents did the best that they could and they gave the best that they could where they were at. So are we going to take that and take the goodness of all of it and repair ourselves from maybe bad things that happened or circumstances that happened and go, God, help me take their like, their ceiling and go to new levels with my kids. So they're even stronger in who they are, no matter what the season looks like for us.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I didn't have this as a question, but since you brought that up about kids, you know, uh, Andrew with, you know, you've got seven. What is that? What is, cause I'm always fascinated when we did, for example, when we did a, we did a marriage seminar, Robin and I recently did. And Robin talked to your wife about, get some insight, you know, we have one, you know, so she asked like five or six women that have five, you know, five or seven kids, whatever the case may four, anything's more than one for us, but she was just getting a little bit inside. So what is that like, you know, hearing what Josh said about, and you know, with, with the seven spending time with them, you know, Even tying in the question that we started with about our emotions and how our parents did the best they knew how to do. But when we come to truth, what I hear all of us saying, when we experience and we come to a revelation of truth, then how do we apply that, not only in our own lives, not only to our wives, but then to that generation as we pass that? Again, man, I could just talk about getting emotional. When I think of the power... that when truth comes into our life and we get a deeper identity of who we are as sons, what we get to do as fathers and how we can pass that down to our kids literally reshapes where they're headed in their life, who they marry down the road, because what they see in us as fathers and as men to be able to go, oh, that's how my dad was. All they're going to remember about the three of you is what you're pouring into them now. Even though we have scars and we have things from our past, and like I said, our parents did the best thing, but when they see us, they go, oh, my dad was this. And we always continue, obviously, pointing back to our Heavenly Father. But what's that been? What's that like, that journey?
SPEAKER_00:Well... Uh, I mean, that's a bigger question, but, uh, give the
SPEAKER_01:perfect answer.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Uh, I mean, I guess the one thing I'd pull out of that and respond to is that, um, our, our journey with, I mean, now at seven looking back and, and when people, and I'm going to brag on my kids, um, When we go to, we go to a restaurant sometimes and sometimes we go to nice restaurants. My kids are very well behaved. And without fail, we'll go to a nice restaurant, sit down, and you could just see everybody looking at us. Eyes are everywhere. You know what I mean? Because people, especially because we go earlier in the day, because we like to get in and out before it gets crowded. And you've got to be tactical with seven kids. You've got to go to a restaurant that you know has a big enough table to seat your family and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, see,
SPEAKER_02:those are things that most of
SPEAKER_00:us... Yeah, there's lots of planning. But we'll go to a place... And without fail, people will come over to our table. And it's generally somebody who's, you know, and maybe in the later stage of their life and comes back and just says, we just want to tell you, your kids are just so well behaved. And for us, when we had two, it was like... Madness. And it was, I'm going to be honest with you. Like two was probably three was the hardest. Okay. And that was just because we were still learning. Okay. But we were also still investing in culture in our home.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I, and I would say that the culture in our home is responsible for the fruit that we see now. And, and that culture has been to kind of your question tying it in a little bit. Lots and lots and lots. We have so many opportunities as a father and a mother to invest in a conversation as opposed to just let something go. Kid does something emotional, whatever. And it's like, I'm busy, I'm at work and this and that, whatever stuff has to happen. But then you stop, bring them close, get on their level, allow the emotion to be there and walk them through that. And we did that so much early on. that now that's all paying off because their older siblings are teaching them as well. It's not just us. And so spending time together and, you know, it's difficult now with seven because there's so many different things happening. And that's still just a growing process. And I'm sure it will be for until they're all gone, which I don't think it changes then. According to other people I've met with lots of kids, it just gets different. But yeah, culture, I would say has been, just the game changer in our home. And it's, it's a culture of honoring each other, um, and bringing the Lord into every conversation we can with our kids. Yeah. Um,
SPEAKER_01:that's so good. Can we stay on this for a minute? Yeah, sure. I, I, certain things pop up in my head, like questions that I think people want to hear about with us because I mean, I've got, I got two kids. I got a 10 year old and a five year old, both boys love into pieces. And, um, there were moments when, um, I know the frustration of what we're going through as mom or dad, but obviously we're talking about guys here. So as a dad, there are moments where you totally want to get down on that level and take a deep breath, but are we in a place to do that? And it's such a hard thing to do sometimes to actually say, no, I'm sacrificing me at this moment to hold back things that are coming against me to then get down on that level. That like being able to do that, is incredible and i think is something that a lot of people struggle with to get to that place because of what they it almost looks like turmoil so when a kids are losing it because of emotional because of their age like obviously kids different ages go through different things emotionally when we When we start understanding where they're at as a boy who's 10 or 11 years old and the emotions they're trying to figure out versus a five-year-old, it's very different. But they're still going through those things, trying to figure it out, and they haven't got it. But if we're caught up in the chaos of our own stuff as parents, it's so hard to be in that place. I just want to ask the question to you guys for other people out there. How do you... get back into that place to not react to your kids. And what's the word I'm after? Instead of reacting, you're being proactive with them to help them grow in who they are.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:that's
SPEAKER_02:good. Andrew, you know, you get me very fired up about what you just shared. It's because this is something we really teach a lot of couples when it comes to how they relate to their children. Because, again, we all want to– I don't even have to ask you guys this. As fathers, we all want to be a better father. We all want to be a better husband. Again, no matter how great our parents were, we want to do better. So that ability to own our stuff– I'll keep it PG– to own our stuff and then to be able to relate with them, what I hear both of you guys saying– Josh, I want to hear your thoughts on this in just a second. But the ability to say– To my kid, hey, you know what? The way I just spoke to your mom or the way I interacted with her, I want to apologize to you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, right there, man. That vulnerability when your kid sees something and be able to go, whoa, wait a second. Yeah. They saw that happen. I need to, it's almost like explain to them or mansplain, whoever you want to call it. But you want to explain to your kid that situation because if you don't, there's a raw moment right there that they're going to take as identity for them. That becomes their truth. Oh, they're yelling at each other. That's part of it. Why should be yelling when I get married? It's like, well, no, no, no. It was a heated discussion. You don't have to go into the details with them, but just being vulnerable with them in that way.
SPEAKER_02:Because they know. That's the thing. As dads, we remind ourselves. Our kids know when we're emotional or having stress. Just like our wives do. What
SPEAKER_01:if they do, man? I think they see the reaction to the stress. They don't know that you're stressed. Yeah, definitely. They see the outcome of you being stressed, and they go, something's off. But they don't know what it is. I can buy into
SPEAKER_02:that.
SPEAKER_01:Like as they get older, yeah, they learn, right?
SPEAKER_02:Right. I can buy into that. But I think we're saying the same thing. Again, we may not be sharing intimate things about, hey, I have a$10,000 bill due and I don't know how I'm going to pay it. We may not go into that. But just like with our wives, you know, we call it Mr. and Mrs. Fine. You know, when you say you're fine to your wife and they know you're not, you know, because they see right through the BS that we're trying to share with them. So that ability to... share with our kids, you know, and you guys can jump in this. I say this all the time. You know, if we treat our kids like their emotions aren't valid, you know, like your five-year-old, you know, if he had a best friend that he had known through all the school year and he gets back to school and he finds out they've moved,
SPEAKER_01:And
SPEAKER_02:that can be devastating.
SPEAKER_01:You can't just be like, come on, we've got to keep going. Keep going, yeah. Exactly. And don't get me wrong, there's moments when I'm in that place where I'm just like, come on, guys, we've got to keep going. Instead of slowing down. When you call me, we don't stop talking. Because we're having a moment. Exactly, yeah. My goal is to make you cry. No, but for real, again, it's being able to recognize it, right? But it all comes down to, are we taking the time to slow down enough? That's what Hardin
SPEAKER_00:was
SPEAKER_01:saying.
SPEAKER_00:It's difficult to do it. It's extremely difficult to do it. But to that point, I mean, you already said it, but I think I've apologized to my kids more than anybody else by a country mile. And I think that's just one of those things that anytime I feel like I'm not doing enough, my kids. Cause I'd same emotions. I think anybody does as a, as a father is like, oh man, you know, I spent too much time at work or on my phone or whatever. Right. You know, it's those things. All you gotta do is look back and see how many times they saw you, uh, get down on their level, be emotional, or make a mistake in front of them and not behind closed doors, and then apologize to them. Because I want to model not only what to do with the situation, I want them to see me do it and go through it. Think
SPEAKER_02:about this. I mean, again, this is a topic that comes up Every counseling session Robert and I have ever done, every man I've ever talked to, every one of it, it's the ability to understand how to navigate difficult situations and how to bring those places to a resolve.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02:And, you know, no wonder we're 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, and we don't know how to deal with those situations because we never saw it modeled. Because either our parents were screaming behind closed doors and didn't think we heard them, or they didn't say anything in front
SPEAKER_01:of us. That's showing weakness. I was waiting for the opportunity because right there, apologizing to your kids is one of the biggest strengths that you have as a father because it shows the example of vulnerability to them instead of seeing it as a weakness that you shouldn't do. it but apologizing to a child you're weak that is such a lie and there's such strength and humility yeah and being able to say i'm sorry to a five-year-old yeah and being like, this is not how it should have gone. Let me help you see how it should have gone and how the conversation should have been or whatever the circumstance was.
SPEAKER_02:So thinking about, I was thinking about, you know, these last three years you've had with your kids, you know, for them to get to see you and spend this one-on-one time is like, you know, we were saying it's like gold. I mean, you know, because it won't be forever. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But to be able to tap into that, I mean, staying on this line, what's that been like? you know, with the kids, I know you touched on it a little bit, you know, but knowing when you had these difficult moments that first year, especially, you know, walking that through them, being with them and even them bringing you strength probably at times and just being your kids and cause yours, their dad, they just love you.
SPEAKER_01:It's like, it's giving me a more of appreciation for my wife. Like, you know, just being able to, um, you know, my wife, part of her, I mean, she's a hard worker. She had worked a lot in her life, but she had a season of, you know, being a stay in the home, mom for a little while. And just that, that appreciation of like, how did my wife do this? Like, uh, like I just don't like my wife might say she doesn't have like a lot of patients, but like I saw in myself, like, how did, how did she do this with like so much grace, you know, like at it. And so like, for me, I've had to like catch myself, like reacting to what my son did. And, um, having to apologize of how my reaction was maybe too loud or too aggressive. And like, you know, that sound like I reacted pretty harshly, pretty loudly, maybe scared you a little bit. And I'm sorry for that because that's not right. But the reason why I did that is because you did this, this and this. And that's not right either. You know, and so I'm trying to explain it to my son of like, this is how I reacted. And I apologize for my reaction. But the reason why I reacted this way is because you did this and that's harmful or that's hurtful or, or whatever. There's the character growing right there that you're taking the time to, Hey, this, this is where you went wrong. Let's work on that. Yeah. There was two, there were two sections right there. The first one was the vulnerability of apologizing. Right. But the second one was, no, we still want to help grow our kids into the character and the people that we know that they're called to be. Right. Yeah. And that was the second piece of it is that's key. Yeah. And I think the hard part too is like, Sometimes I can't do that in the moment because my son's not ready to hear it. Or we're not ready to. Or we're not ready. Yeah, yeah, for real. But then how do we find a good balance of making it still raw? We haven't just glazed over it and it's in the past now. But then how do we not do it when he's not ready or I'm not ready? finding that balance of when to have that sit-down conversation or getting low with him before it gets too far back. That's good. A great example of this is how many times have we gone to put the kids to bed at nighttime, they don't do what you say, and you're at the end of the day, you're exhausted, you flip out on them, like, I told you to get in bed, you need to be in bed. I'm toning this down a lot, right? You guys know that. And it's like, wait a moment. I should have stepped back and not in that moment when trying to get him into bed, but the next day, because for them in that moment when we're just yelling in the whole circumstance of the boiling pot going on, they can't hear anything. Yeah. Right. But they're too young. They haven't, they haven't got to the point for like mine like 10 and under kind of thing right they haven't got to the point of being able to receive what you're yelling at them because they're just emotionally caught up and they're like and you're just like get in bed yeah that sounds like how I
SPEAKER_02:talk to God sometimes just being just being honest like you know I'm going on a rant and he's probably got something very encouraging to tell me so I'm glad he talks to me the next day
SPEAKER_01:and that's the piece is actually the next day the next morning when the They've like gone to bed, calmed down, we've calmed down and then had just a normal conversation instead of in the heat of a moment. They can actually hear it and receive it. But if you go on that next day, if you just go straight to work. Oh yeah. Then the whole day is gone. You missed it. Yep. And then, I mean, they've moved on and you're trying to go back and help. Exactly right. So it totally is finding those right moments. and being able to recognize for your kids, when can they actually receive it? When can I actually rectify what they did wrong versus over just the heat of the moment. But, you know, it
SPEAKER_02:really does– and this concept applies to any relationship, our kids, our wives, whatever. Robin says this all the time. I think I mentioned this earlier. Have a great relationship. You've got to ask great questions. And I think sometimes– so I'm just throwing this out there, so I'm not disagreeing with what anybody's saying. But I think sometimes it's easy to– going back to what Andrew said, developing that culture, inviting your kids into the moments– that you're having and that they're having. So to be able to ask them good questions, because, you know, yes, they're five, they're 10, they're 13, whatever the case may be. But to say, hey, what do you need from me as a dad in these moments? That's good. Help me learn how to, because we call it the foreign language. You know, I've got 35 years of speaking a foreign language called Robin. And I've gotten pretty good at it. And she's got 35 years of learning to speak raw pretty well. So it's the same thing with our kids. If we can learn what you were saying, Andrew, to connect with them on their level and find out what their truth is about a moment. Yeah, bad and things of that nature. Yeah, I get it. But then there's all these other big situations that are going to come up in their life. Hey, help me understand what's going on. What do you need from me as a dad right now? What do you need from mom and I in this moment? Because your opinion matters. I can't even compute what– what that question would be like. Because I didn't get that as a kid. It was my way or the highway. My dad was that. This is my house. If you want to live in this house, these are my rules. And I get there's a validity to that and there's some truth to that. I understand that he paid the bills. But I think what I hear saying as far as on this theme goes is what a wonderful place to be at as dads, as husbands, when you start really going after the truth of who you are and how God wants to cultivate that relationship between him and you so you know how to be a good husband, how to be a good friend, how to be a good father.
SPEAKER_01:What's amazing is as you do it, as you pour into the kids, you don't face half of the things and the difficulties because you've already set up the culture where you hear your kids and they hear you. And then you won't face half of the things that you're facing right now if you haven't done that. But it does take time. There is a cost to it, but it is well worth it because actually there's peace in your home and they will come to you. And I always want my kids, whether they're five, 10, 20, 50, I want them coming to me to talk to me and ask for my opinion. I don't want to have to tell them or feel like I have to tell them. I want them to come and say, hey, Hey, Dad, what do you think about this? Could you help me with this? But it is cultivating that culture.
SPEAKER_02:Man, doesn't that sound just like what we want from our Heavenly Father? Wow. I mean, think about what we're talking about culture and the attitude that we have and how we relate and how we talk.
SPEAKER_01:That's good.
SPEAKER_02:Right? Yep. I mean, I've shared that with some of you guys before. I had forgotten. We had a ministry school at one time at the church, and Josh and I, we just went through it at the same time, and it was COVID. And when all that got shut down, it was very difficult. I felt very robbed from that moment because it just didn't end the way I thought it
SPEAKER_01:should. That's a good pun.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks. And then I was journaling, and I've shared this before on other podcasts, but, I mean, I went off for about 30 minutes. I mean, there's words I cannot say on the air. And right after the interview, Right after the end of that, I have probably to this day probably one of my most favorite journal moments ever because God just dumped love on me. How proud he was of me. I'm a son. And I went, are you serious? Did you just not hear the meltdown that I had?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, my gosh. I transfer that right now into you and your kid. That's what I meant. Yeah. I'm processing, as you're saying, with your Heavenly Father. I'm now going, okay, how many times has my kid flipped at me and what's my reaction been? And actually, am I doing what my Heavenly Father is doing and representing who Jesus was to the full extreme? And the answer is no, not yet. But do I want to keep going in that direction? 100% I do. Because when he yells at me or shouts at me or is frustrating at me, I mean, yeah, you're right. Like I wasn't brought up in a way that my dad will come over and give me a big hug. It was a fight. Like it was a full on battle. And that's, that's how like me and him got along for years. Now there's a lot of repair in that, but actually I want to be able to hug him and love on him in the moment where he's struggling and just yelling at me and just saying, I love you because that immediately would just break it down. Now you obviously don't ignore what's going on. Sure. But in that moment it was just, you need love.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Andrew, any other thoughts on... Do y'all have family meetings? No. No. You know, when you have that baby... There's no roadmap, unfortunately. And obviously each kid
SPEAKER_00:is just like a sports team. Well, the one thing I was going to say on that point, that learning having multiple kids is that the way that we approach some of those moments with them is different because they're all individuals, right? And they respond differently to different things. We had our first three and I was like, man, we're just rock stars as parents. And then Remington came along, my second son. And Remington was just a wild animal. And he was just like me, basically, as a kid. But, you know, talking about like moments with kids, it's like the same with like me with my father, with the Lord is it takes me, I can't like... immediately just get into a place where I'm just like connected.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Like where he can really speak to me now he's God, he can do anything. Sure. But I have to be quiet. My mind is racing and there's a, you know, just the way I'm a forward, like future thinker always. And so I have to just like 20 minutes before I'm in a place where like the Lord speaks to me. Sure. You know, and I feel a different way then.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:the kids are the same way where they all do that. In my experience, you know, where some of them, and we're having these moments where we're talking them through things and whatever, some of them need to go. Like Remington needed to go. He had to go somewhere else, calm down, and then come back to us. And then others, I had to admonish, like, hey, speak identity into them over and over again. Like you are, I know you to be a peaceful, amazing person. You know, you had to like, I have some kids that are that way that I have to, but they're all unique individuals. And I think that's the learning process for us as parents. Cause it's like, we have, we hope that like the first one, like my oldest daughter, that like everything that worked with her is going to work with all of them. Oh, that's the dream right there. Yeah. It's not the case. One and done. Even like it would be some sort of straight line, but like just realizing it's some things work for some, some things work for other, but there is a place of creating an environment where they can actually hear me. Right. Right. And it just makes me think about myself with the Lord and it's the same. Like I know people that can just boom right in there and they're just, you know, download from heaven and can like, I just have not been that way. I have to be quiet and silent. So
SPEAKER_02:it's the same thing in our marriages. You know, I mean, for, for me, for example, I'm a very high, I'm a very high extrovert, but when it comes to communicating, I need space, you know, I need time. I mean, and, but what we learned was in that relationship was like, well, And I've shared this before. I can remember like it was yesterday, Highway 301 in Tampa, Florida, and we're in the heat of a discussion, we'll call it, Robert and I. And I look at her and I say, what do you need from me? I was a lot louder than that and didn't know what was about to happen. And I put this in with our kids, all this whole conversation that we're having. And she told me. And I went, oh, okay.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And then in turn, she said, what do you need from me? And I told her. And we realized, because we process different, she's very extroverted. And when she's trying to get to a place of understanding, she talks out loud and goes through about six or seven scenarios. For me... I had to learn, and this is what I encourage not only as husband and as parents, knowing how to communicate. You've got to know what you're saying, Andrew, about with each of your kids, knowing what they need, just like we know what we need as husbands and wives. But I had to learn in the beginning to say, look, I need either 20 minutes or an hour. Wow. Because I knew me. Because the way I was raised, my father was a rager, yeller. He never hit us like what you were saying, Josh. But it was fists through walls. It was all those kind of things. But I didn't want to be him. So in turn, I shut down. I internalized everything that I did. But I had to learn. That was part of our language. I had to learn to say to her, hey, I've heard what you said. Because everybody wants to be heard. Everybody wants validation about their emotions, whether it's our kids or whether it's our spouses. So I had to learn to say to her, I need 20 minutes to an hour. But I've heard you. One, I acknowledge what she needed. And two, we will come back and talk about this. Maybe I'm missing that part. And I had to stay true to my word to do that. And then so when Robin told me what she needed in the beginning, and this can feel the same way I think with our kids, it felt a little rehearsed. But over time, she knew that I was putting forth the effort to try to speak to her where she was at. And I think that's what we're saying about our kids. When we bring, you know, I understand what you guys are saying about getting down to their level. This is something I've just done always. Whenever I meet a kid for the first time, I get on my knees. It's just something, I don't know where I learned that from. I just try to get low so I don't feel too big to them. And that's just something I've always done.
SPEAKER_01:That makes all the difference. Because then they actually connect with you instead of looking up and being like, who's this? That's just
SPEAKER_02:something I've always done. I don't know why I picked that up, but I just always do that. But I think to summarize this part of our conversation, it really just comes down to the desired, one, we want to be heard and to connect with them, whatever they're at, to validate their moment, even though it may not be the$10,000 bill that we're worried about. But if it is their best friend that moved away, that's just as important to them. And as dads, when we get to give them that gift, that's a game changer.
SPEAKER_01:And not saying like, oh, that's not a big deal.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Oh, yeah. Or when you, some of you heard that when you quit crying, come out of your room. Man, no wonder we push down our emotions as men. And we, Andrew, like your bravery to say, you know, hey, I had to realize I wanted to be strong. Obviously, we all know this, right, guys? Our wives recognize, again, when we're going through stuff, so we're really not hiding anything. So that ability to connect to them emotionally is huge. Okay, so I want to shift gears and ask you guys another kind of question, kind of on this point, and whoever wants to jump in. I forgot who highlighted this one, but what's a pivotal moment in your life When another man's support helped you navigate a challenging time. And I'll give you guys a second to think on that. But again, so what's a pivotal moment in your life when another man's support helped you navigate a challenging time? Who wants to go short story time?
SPEAKER_00:Not all at once. I could speak more to a season of my life. I like it. Yeah, sure. Do a season. So I... I used to manage RV dealerships and I started on the floor in sales and then I was in finance. And then in a very short period of time, I was running the dealership and I was 27. Okay. Somewhere in there. So pretty much everybody in the building was older than me. And that was where leadership cutting the teeth for me was. And it was really difficult. And my owner of the company, believe it or not, who I hated at the time, was really hard on me, like extra. And I just never understood why. And one of the things that he was doing for me, though, is he saw, he'd have like, really hard things. Like he'd give me a phone call. Like there was a unit that was out there. Like I'll use inventory zoning cash. And this is kind of just a detail, but that's got to move. Like they got to get that out of there. The bank isn't paying for it. So, you know, it'd be something like that. He'd just call and be like, move that thing tomorrow. We're going to have problems and hang up on me. You know,
SPEAKER_01:it's just
SPEAKER_00:some of the things like that. It's just really intense where he wasn't with other people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's really short with you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. But extra. And, you know, even in group meetings, like I was the young guy, you know, with all the other, it was a big company. So all these other guys that were running dealerships and just like point me out and, you know, he was just tough on me. But he'd have these little points where he would, he wouldn't say much to me, but he'd have these little points where he'd encourage me.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And it took until I was almost leaving that company. for me to realize that the reason I was able to handle some of that pressure and stress was because this dude was calling me up. Nobody else, like everybody else gave me nothing but praise. You're a young guy, you're doing amazing, but I needed a dude to call me up in that season. And I know this, whatever, take this for what it's worth, but this guy to this day, nobody else, as far as I know, anybody else that was with me on that level in that period of my life as far as coworkers and stuff. Right. Don't communicate with them all. He sold his company. He's a very wealthy dude now. He was then too, but he's to this day one of my mentors.
SPEAKER_02:Really?
SPEAKER_00:And calls me all the time. And the only reason why is because I didn't respond, but he kind of brought that out of me. Like I needed somebody to call me out and call me up consistently at that point in my life.
SPEAKER_01:So interesting that how many people go through that and go, I'm done, I'm out. Totally. I wanted to. Yep. All the time. A hundred percent. But you know what? But the pursuit of pushing through actually led you to that point of actually the next level of, that he was sore in you and maybe that he didn't say it it may have been two years three years but actually him continuously doing that now is create that connection that you're not going to have with many other people at all in a lifetime
SPEAKER_00:well one of the things that taught me is that the pursuit of mentorship is a pursuit and some of those guys that maybe i want to be like so i can get around them enough to where i can rise to that level might take some pursuit and a cost And a cost. Yep. And they might tell you a lot of things you don't want to hear.
SPEAKER_02:So let me ask you a question. Would you say that there was a difference? Because, I mean, for me, this is me personally. I don't do well with yelling or screaming. I'm not. He didn't yell. Okay. So I just want to clarify that. Because what I want to make sure somebody's listening to hear this is you felt that it was tough encouragement. but it was pushing you to a place that you didn't even know you could go in yourself. Did you ever feel, because if somebody could be listening to this, I mean, because none of us want to be degraded. You never felt. No, no, no, no, no, no. He, he, he wasn't, he wasn't like that. But it was saying you, you can be up here, but this is what it's going to take. Correct.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Correct. And, and I, and I think that there's so many things that men experience and struggle with that everyone can see. That's in their circle, but no one will tell them. No one will call you out. And we desperately, I just knew like that, what that did for me in that point in my life is it made me realize like, if I'm surrounded by everybody's telling me I'm doing such a good job all the time, I'm in the wrong place.
SPEAKER_01:Or telling you what to do every time.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. Either. But, but like, you just have to have somebody who's going to look at you. And even sometimes like, I'll tell you, I've had interactions with people I don't even know at a gym or something, and I see them coming in and coming in and whatever, and I'll say something to them that I feel like the Lord has that may not be the most encouraging thing, but the things I've seen happen in calling brothers out is different than being like... And I think it's both. You can call somebody out and you can call somebody up, right? But I think there's a special gift on some people that have walked through things in their life that can... not be afraid to have somebody around you that's struggling to tell them the truth.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, you can tell them in love for sure. Sure. And hopefully you do. Yeah. But either way, you know, I did a video on one of my other things about this and there was just massive response because it's just the truth. Like you see people fall every day in all different walks of life, specifically speaking to men. And you wonder, okay, Did anybody in their close circle see it and say something to them? Or was everybody too afraid? That's good. Are you willing to sacrifice maybe some of your closeness and relationship because you don't want to call somebody out on something that you're like, dude, I see this happening. Can you help? You
SPEAKER_02:know what I mean? No, I do. That's a big thing. What we talk about a lot is the power of our story. but there has to be, you know, there's two, there's two trains of thoughts with that. When I think about, you know, when you obviously back to our wives, even our kids, when you have longevity to have that emotional equity built up, but then, you know, as friends, as men, we, we need those moments where, like you said, it's like, Hey, I'd rather ask you and take the chance of maybe you being offended. Absolutely. And say, Hey, I need you to be honest with me. Cause I think we, you know, I usually preface, I think we have a good enough relationship for me to ask you this, but what's, what are you looking at me? Well, cause you're closest to me. You're sitting to my left side. You're easy to touch. Don't be scared. It's like, you know, what is going on? Because I've known you long enough. This is, this is not the version of you. One. I know you've told me you want to be.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And two, maybe I'm wrong. If I am, then as long as you know I'm thinking about you and that I love you, and if not, how can I partner with
SPEAKER_00:you? It goes back to genuine. We were talking about being genuine and the response that comes from that, right? And people know whether you're right or wrong when you're calling somebody out if it's coming from a place there, right? I mean, you can smell the difference. You know it. You see it, body language, everything, just the spirit behind it, obviously. Yeah. There's a
SPEAKER_02:different– yeah, people can– I mean, anybody, when you're in true– people can sense when you're trying to manipulate them or you're just after something versus a genuine thing. Say, man, I love you, and you're part of my life, and what I'm picking up on– obviously, we're all believers here, and we pray, and I believe there's the power that I know without even asking the three of you that we've all experienced about– When God, you feel that little prompt or you feel that little thing to go, man, I need to reach out to so-and-so. And you do it. I mean, we've talked about the just so many times, like, oh, my God, you called just at the perfect time. Or that text came through just at the perfect time. And it's what you said. But all of this, any relationship takes work. Robin and I say this all the time. Marriage is the best hard work you will ever do. But man, it is worth it. But it's the same thing with our kids. It's the same thing with our relationship with our other brothers. It's work. And sometimes it's easy to get caught up in your own world. But I'm glad I've got guys in my life that will call me and go, hey, how are you? I haven't heard from you in a while. What's going on? I mean, I'm pretty open, Josh. I know you were talking about that. I'll talk to a lamppost. I'll talk to anybody. I wonder where you were this morning. I was out by the tree. But anyway, I totally get that. I think that's important. I
SPEAKER_00:do want to just marry that with the other side of that, which is you know, just as much as men need that. There are so many men that go through years without a single encouraging word from somebody. And it can be, that can come from a random stranger that doesn't have to have relationship. And there's so many men that are just on the brink of crazy real problems in their life that you could just speak to them something simple. Like, Hey dude, I see like you working out. Like, you know, what's I see you doing all this. Like you do a great job, you know, and that it takes both. I want to marry it. Not with just the harshness of that, but, You got to do both.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah. I listened to a lot of different podcasts and Mel Robbins. Some of you may know who she is, whatever. She just had a recent podcast about the three. She had where she had interviewed 52 different scientists, doctors or whatever, and went through the top three things for longevity of life. One was obviously working out, but it's not necessarily lifting weight, just working out. And then the third one was. ties back to what we're talking about, is the longevity of life is tied to what our community is like, how we reach out to other people, and are we connected. It's just a proven fact that that creates a long life. Because we, again, sounds so simple. We need each other. That's why you guys are sitting at this table, because we need men. We need each other. We need other couples to be encouraged by it, too. But there's just a power in... knowing that you're heard.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And even like what you said, Andrew, what would seem like a small thing, I don't discount that anymore. The ability just to see a stranger and say, hey, how are you? Hope you're having a good day. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Life and death.
SPEAKER_02:Man, absolutely. It can be huge. And we just kind of, it's easy to discount that because, you know, being around you guys, you know, all of us are talkers. That's why we're sitting around this table. But the ability, some more than others. But anyway, the point of that is, like what you said, those small, what seem like small moments, man, they can make an impact on somebody. I know without a shadow of a doubt, that you were talking about your TikTok and what this podcast. You're out there listening today, and maybe you're discouraged. I'm just telling you, there's four guys sitting at a table here telling you don't give up. Believe me, God does have a plan for you. I'm not talking about church. I'm not talking about religion. What I'm talking about is a relationship. And that's what we're talking about, whether it's with our wives, whether it's with our kids, whether it's with each other as men. Just like what we're talking about here, you have to work on that relationship with God. You've got to be willing to hear sometimes Him say those one, yes, loving things, but sometimes those tough things that says, I've got something better for you. And that's what we want you to hear today is to understand that God has something better for your life. Josh?
SPEAKER_01:I have something to say. Yeah, jump in. Whoever is listening to this, you're in a different season than the people that you're looking around in your life right now. you're in a different season most of the time and if you're judging what you're going through by mark and andy what season they're in they're in different seasons you know and each of us depending on the season that we're in need maybe we need that boss that's you know telling us click you know you need better do something click or maybe you need that encouragement um but you're in a different season you know and don't forget that in this moment Don't judge from what other people are going through because you might need something different in this season. And then the next season, you might need something different. I remember being in a season where I reached out to my pastor and I was like, I just need some advice. And my pastor was like, so when did you journal with God about this? And what did he say? And I was like, oh, okay. Like I was going to the pastor, like give me some answers. And he was like, did you go to God for it? And that's what I needed in that season because I was just looking for the right answer from a pastoral advice. But in that moment, I just needed to connect with my father and ask him. And he was the one who in that season was able to give me what I needed. And so it depends on what season you're in. So like you said, like don't give up. like try to figure out what season you're in. What do you need? I think that's a big question too, is like when Robin asks you, like, what do you need in this moment? I'm like, Oh, what do I need in this season? Yes. You know, and getting to that point and then you can find answers or then you can ask God for, or then you can go to a boss or a brother or someone and be like, I need that. Or maybe it's your wife. Like, I just realized I need this. And that's how you can get help.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, it's like I believe about income, multiple streams of income. You need multiple resources in your life to be a complete person. You need that person that can kick you in the butt. You need that person that can encourage you. Sometimes they're the same person. Our wives are totally different. I totally believe that. I've said this countless times back to our beginning. The more vulnerable I've learned to be with Robin, the stronger I've become in her eyes. And it took me a long time to understand that that is not weakness in her eyes. It's the exact opposite. And for most of us as men, we're not taught that. So to hear you guys sitting on this table talking about how you're learning to relate to your children, your desire to keep working on it in your own life about being emotionally available for your wives, again, it's a proven fact. Still learning. Hey, we're all on the journey. More women... There was a survey done a while back that more women would rather go through a financial difficulty with their husband than be emotionally disconnected. Wow. And we're not taught that. Yeah. That's good. So as we learn that, and we can pass that on to our sons, and then our daughters, Andrew, you have a daughter too, that get to see that. We get to change. It's a legacy that we create for the next generation. Any closing thoughts on this topic? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I would just say, if you're listening, where's your value coming from? So I think back and look at my story in my life and the pivotal moments of people who've spoken into it. And actually, yeah, there are, there are some from obviously our parents, things like that, but with the workplace has been a big one for me too. But actually what you were saying, Josh, about, Hey, you looking at the people around you, trying to get to where they're at instead of looking at what you're called to do. Is your value coming from the people around you? Is your value coming from what your boss says or your dad says or this person says? Or is your value coming from our Father in heaven? Because in the workplace, I've been in circumstances with work where I was ready to go, felt like God called me away from this job, and actually I was wrong. And then I sat. for two and a half years still working the grind, waiting. And that was one of the hardest lessons that I had to learn because God was saying, no, no, no, not in your time in jazz, but in my time in jazz. But where was my value coming from in that season? Because if I looked at everyone around me, I could have kept going with that career and growing in it. But actually, I had a boss who hated me. I had a boss who was against me. He wasn't for me. And if you've ever worked in a place where you've had a boss that doesn't like you and is fighting you on every step, it's hard to stay in that place. But you know what? My value was in what God had said to me, not how I was being treated in that moment. And actually, it makes you stronger. Why? Because you took the benefit and the strengthening of that place because you knew what was about to come and this this brings me full circle around to saying there are lessons that god walks us through that are hard so that we can be stronger in the kingdom in knowing who we are because there are greater things that he's got before us that he needs us to go through those training grounds to be able to bring the kingdom into yeah And so are we willing to pay the price in those moments and hear God and get our value from him instead of looking at the people around us going, well, they've got all this money, they've got all these promotions, they've got all of this. But actually, is that what I'm running after? No. I'm running after the kingdom and he'll position you in different places. May it be in business, a high up executive, may it be the janitor. It doesn't matter because it all comes down to where's your heart at and are you good with him and are you still growing? But mean pivotal things i mean the bosses that spoke into my life through the years there's one specific one for about six years when i was in new york he never told me and never communicated well why he did what he did to the point that i thought i was getting fired from my last job but actually he was protecting me so actually When we're talking about these things and pivotal moments and working through like business and work and things like that, take a step back for a second because you're not seeing the full picture. Yeah, the timing of it. Exactly right. But when you look back, through a season and you know that you've left well you took everything you grew massively and you look back and see it and you go oh my gosh god you were in every single moment of that even though so good i thought that that boss was getting ready to fire me actually what he was doing was protecting me and he was actually helping me grow into the leader and the businessman that now i've become and actually to this day i still see him he still calls me we communicate probably once a month like and i I credit a lot of where I'm at today because of him. And I remind him of that now. But actually, we have to be able to see in those moments when they're difficult and when they're hard, and they're speaking what you may feel like negatively against you or trying to push you down or pulling the rug from underneath you or firing you or whatever it is. Actually, if you're working and you're giving it all, which is what God's asked us to do and whatever is before us and whatever we're working on, hey, he's got your back. We just may not see the full picture. And then it starts to come to fruition, actually. when you've left. So I just want to encourage you, if you're in a place at work right now where you're finding it difficult, you're finding the grind, actually, I'm going to ask you and challenge you right now, where's your value coming from?
SPEAKER_02:So good.
SPEAKER_01:Is it coming from the people around you and the success that they have because you don't have it? Or is it coming from that God's placed me in this place for a purpose and a reason? Yeah, in this time. And in this time. Yeah. So ask him. Let's go. Ask him what the lesson is of why he's got you there. Because when you hear from him the lesson that he wants you to learn, the next level and the next promotion and the next glory is coming. Yeah, and you don't know when that breakthrough is coming either. It could be tomorrow.
SPEAKER_02:Some of you know me well. Philippians 4, 6, 7 is Philippians 4. I've said this countless times. If I didn't have anything else in my life, Philippians 4, I could make it. but Philippians 4, specifically 6 and 7, peace that surpasses understanding. And what we're trying to say as we close this part of the episode out is just understanding when you, that's where the God factor comes in, whether it's marriage, whether it's our kids, whether it's our jobs, that ability when we are in His peace, the understanding, because trust me, as men, if you need to understand everything, you'll never walk in peace because the questions will just outweigh the peace. So, but when you have that ability to trust God and know what you said, he is, wow, what a thought. He really is working all things to my good. Now, again, we've tested, we're not saying it's right to be degraded or be, but unfortunately, not every boss is going to be nice. But if I have peace that he's working all things out to my good,
SPEAKER_01:the
SPEAKER_02:understanding, I'll be able to say, God, I don't, I'm honest with you, God. I'm being a lot calmer than I have been. I don't understand this season, but I trust you, and I choose to walk in peace in this situation.
SPEAKER_01:That's good.
SPEAKER_02:Good stuff, guys. I'll be back in just a second with some closing remarks. It always amazes me when I sit around this table with a group of guys the new depth and the new layers that come from just talking, asking questions, sharing our stories. And I hope that's what you're getting out of each of these episodes is I was talking to somebody this week and just understanding we're all going through something, but hearing that we have other brothers that have walked out or or walking out these types of situations, it just always brings encouragement to me. And to know that I'm not alone. And I know you've heard us say it countless times, asking for help, inviting somebody into your journey that can walk beside you, encourage you, lift you up, challenge you when you need it. So that's the whole point of our conversation and the journey of being a man and understanding it never ends. Change is inevitable. And then when we have those tough moments and we have those moments, I've said it before, when we're sitting on the edge of the bed or in our car, we don't have an answer. It's great to know, or let me encourage, let me say it this way. Because some of you guys have said, I don't have that type of relationship. That's where you have to pursue that and you have to go after that and you have to cultivate that. So today, maybe it's somebody at work that you can be transparent with. Maybe it's somebody, a friend that you've not spoken to in a while, somebody at church. Pick up the phone. This one, I encourage you, don't text. Pick up the phone call and say, hey, I'd just love to get coffee with you or do breakfast with you. And I just need some relationship and I need somebody to talk to. That first step is always the hardest. I get it. But the benefits far outweigh any fear or any concern about how you might be perceived. But you got to take that step. Thanks again for listening to Just Everyday Guys. Don't forget to hit that follow button so you know when the next episode is coming out. See you soon.
SPEAKER_00:I know I have something to
SPEAKER_01:say because I What makes a man? What makes a man?
